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(no subject)
On one of the lists I belong to, there's been some really interesting discussion about people's stances on body modification. I find most surgical body modification problematic. I wouldn't insist that others not get surgery to change the way their appearance, but it feels to me that plastic (even reconstructive) surgery, weightloss surgery and sex-reassignment are all ways in which we force the body to conform to cultural norms (duality of gender, fat is evil, there's only one kind of beautiful).
That doesn't mean I condemn individuals for making these choices. I just think the choices can (like all individual choices) add up to reinforcing those norms. But if the decision is to do that, or to live in a world that sends messages about your failure to fit 24/7... I can't fault someone for not being a Warrior of the New Culture or whatever, you know? It's hard just to be sorta fat, just to be a woman, just to be queer - it has to be much harder for your body to be seen by the culture (of which you are part) as a symbol of your Fundamental Wrongness.
I usually just shut up about this, because we're talking about choices that don't feel remotely optional to the people who make them. That's not them failing - it's a culture failing them; it's all of us believing that sex=gender or fat=agony. This is obvious to most of us when we talk about SRS or reconstructive surgery after cancer or something, but we're much more likely to criticise individuals for wanting "younger looking skin" or something else we consider shallow. The culture's not where it needs to go yet, and individuals are in different places along the way. So I can only criticise the culture, not the people wading through it.
I'm feeling optimistic today. This weekend I was watching television and realized that I found Tom Cruise oddly hot. I have a long history of being completely turned off by the buffly athletic hero body type. I like curvy and soft and wiry and gaunt, you know? [Not all together, silly!] But I've come to find buffness attractive as my partner has become more and more buff.
And I'm thinking the culture changes like that, too. The more each of us come to know a wider range of bodies, the more acceptable those bodies will be. It's started already, all over. That's why there's so much furor over "real beauty" and the Obesity Crisis, Egads! - because that change will slowly and fundamentally alter the nature of the way things and ideas get sold.
Yeah. I'm feeling optimistic.
That doesn't mean I condemn individuals for making these choices. I just think the choices can (like all individual choices) add up to reinforcing those norms. But if the decision is to do that, or to live in a world that sends messages about your failure to fit 24/7... I can't fault someone for not being a Warrior of the New Culture or whatever, you know? It's hard just to be sorta fat, just to be a woman, just to be queer - it has to be much harder for your body to be seen by the culture (of which you are part) as a symbol of your Fundamental Wrongness.
I usually just shut up about this, because we're talking about choices that don't feel remotely optional to the people who make them. That's not them failing - it's a culture failing them; it's all of us believing that sex=gender or fat=agony. This is obvious to most of us when we talk about SRS or reconstructive surgery after cancer or something, but we're much more likely to criticise individuals for wanting "younger looking skin" or something else we consider shallow. The culture's not where it needs to go yet, and individuals are in different places along the way. So I can only criticise the culture, not the people wading through it.
I'm feeling optimistic today. This weekend I was watching television and realized that I found Tom Cruise oddly hot. I have a long history of being completely turned off by the buffly athletic hero body type. I like curvy and soft and wiry and gaunt, you know? [Not all together, silly!] But I've come to find buffness attractive as my partner has become more and more buff.
And I'm thinking the culture changes like that, too. The more each of us come to know a wider range of bodies, the more acceptable those bodies will be. It's started already, all over. That's why there's so much furor over "real beauty" and the Obesity Crisis, Egads! - because that change will slowly and fundamentally alter the nature of the way things and ideas get sold.
Yeah. I'm feeling optimistic.
no subject
"You don't know me!!! I totally made this choice under my own power!!! How dare you tell me my choice is not a choice!!!"
and
"Well we DO live in this society so we HAVE to make choices to live in it so cope! You are fooling yourself if you think you can make choices in a vacuum."
I never know how to come back to these things. It's a conversation stopper, for me, to bring up the fact that someone's choice might have been influenced by our society and that if they consider that, they could see why others object to it.
I am blathering here, but it seems like there are two issues; one, whether the choice to (in this case) have some cosmetic surgery was made under pressure of patriarchy, and second, whether that choice feeds the machine or defies it or is simply an individual choice which "shouldn't" effect anyone else at all. (I'm playing devil's advocate to myself a little. I have only known one woman who actually had cosmetic surgery, and at the time I never spoke to her about it, but she said some defensive things about it. I'm dreading the day someone I care about decides to do something like this and I feel like I want to actually talk to them (i.e. confront) about it.
no subject
But the one thing that works when I don't want to stop the conversation is posing these things as questions. Like, "how do you feel your dieting is influenced by pressures on women?" or "would it change things if you had a daughter who was watching you do this?" - I have to be more polite than I may feel, but I've had some good conversations this way.