(no subject)

[keryx]

What does a fat grrrl in a Playboy bunny tank top [Disregard that she's not particularly fat, just play along.] say to you? Does it say "fuck your fascist beauty standards"? "I'm only valuable if I can be made a sex object"? "Pleeeease mainstream beauty standard, pretty please accept me"? Or "uh, hi, I'm a fat grrrl wearing a Playboy logo"?

Not that there's any one right answer.

Although. TODAY I think most of the grrrls who'd wear it are thinking along the lines of that third one. Cause I'm really losing faith in other fat chicks this week. I am really, really tired this week of fat grrrls gathering on fat-positive lists and communities I belong to (online) and demanding safe space to talk about losing weight and dieting. It's making me snarkier than usual.

Comments

[snidegrrl.livejournal.com]

My immediate reaction would be, why cater to a group that excludes you? which i guess is the same as "Pleeeease mainstream beauty standard, pretty please accept me".

Also with a healthy dose of "oh gross, i want to set things on FIRE"

[keryx.livejournal.com]

In pissy hypothetical answer to your first point: "because being fat is so unhealthyyyyy and I felt so much better when I stopped eating entirely and lost 80 lbs" (read, I don't actually get the whole health concept, as I am either stupid or so fundamentally bought into the damaging anti-fat thinking of our society that I can't resist defending it with firey rhetoric).

I try to be understanding, but I am so sick of being called a militant and a zealot by other supposedly size-positive people. Cause THEIR militant support of losing weight as the ultimately cure-all is just "self-defense". Yeah, the FAT ACTIVISTS are OPPRESSING them.

while we're exercising our right to snarky sarcasm...

[snidegrrl.livejournal.com]

But Playboy is sexually liberating!!!! It liberates me to be beautiful and sexy in a few very distinct ways approved by our culture!!! Stop trying to censor WOMEN!!!!

Re: while we're exercising our right to snarky sarcasm...

[keryx.livejournal.com]

FEMINISTS ARE OPPRESSING ME!

Re: while we're exercising our right to snarky sarcasm...

[hope-persists.livejournal.com]

just think. we probably wouldnt be nearly liberated enough to have that labiaplasty we so desperately need without the *support* of playboy!

just think how many parts of ourselves are hideous and we didn't even know. thank god i am now free enough to starve and mutilate myself. let's hope the iraqi women will be as lucky.

Re: while we're exercising our right to snarky sarcasm...

[snidegrrl.livejournal.com]

i'm singing a paean to hugh hefner right now.

:P

Re: while we're exercising our right to snarky sarcasm...

[keryx.livejournal.com]

I just about peed my pants reading your comment. I needed that. :)

[keryx.livejournal.com]

Also...
Also with a healthy dose of "oh gross, i want to set things on FIRE"

tee hee. :)

[originalenid.livejournal.com]

uuuuuuuuuuuuugh. on both things.

1st thing: it says to me "i've never thought about playboy past the superficial seal of approval for sexy girls angle, so i'll just attach that symbol to myself as an attempt to show that i think i'm sexy even though i'm unwittingly contributing to a system that encourages the idea that a woman's ability to arouse a man determines her worth."

2nd thing: fucking horrible. will people just please grow up and realize that you can't have it both ways? you can't gain approval from fat activists and fat phobes at the same time, and you CAN NOT be a fat activist who actively hates their own fat (you can have these feelings, but being a fat activist means you realize that losing weight intentionally is a self-mortifying process that doesn't even stick, so it is inherently WRONG). and no matter WHAT you say, when you're on a weight loss diet, you're doing something that is the exact opposite of ACCEPTING YOUR BODY AS IT IS AND EMBRACING IT.

AAAAAAAAAAGH! *pulls out hair*

[originalenid.livejournal.com]

also, would you be interested in starting a forum for peeps like us who are sick of that kind of bullshit? i don't know what that would entail, but i think that fat activists who actually get it are usually spread so thin within groups that it might be beneficial to gather a whole lot of them toghether.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

yes, that'd be swell. there's a fat feminists community on LJ that in theory does some of that. although it shouldn't be exclusive of feminists who aren't so much fat as actually average-sized; they take a lot of the same shit from the dominant culture.

[miffyness.livejournal.com]

I hate hate hate hate hate the ubiquity of the Playboy logo these days. I just despair of anyone who thinks that's a cool brand to identify with.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

clearly you haven't read pifflegrrrl's comment above, then... Playboy's liberating women left and right!

/snarkery. for now.

hmmmm.

[chubbycore.livejournal.com]

i guess i'd wear the playboy shirt mostly because it would be amusing to me, and also it's fun to watch people's heads pop off when they try and figure out "uh, why is _she_ wearing that?" I also enjoy wearing my "no fat chicks" shirt a lot.

these are the things I like to wear when i am feeling very sassy and "don't fuck with me."

As for safe space to talk about weight loss . . . i feel your pain. i end up deleting and skipping over quite a lot of stuff. i too, get called "sensitive" and "militant" when i'm against that sort of thing. and having been called "sensitive" and "militant" a lot in my life, i tend to avoid situations where I'll have to deal with that sort of thing.

Re: hmmmm.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

I wonder if people would get stuck in the 'why is she wearing that' thing, or if the Playboy logo has managed to be ubiquitous enough that our eyes would glide right over it?

Dude, now I want a 'no fat chicks' shirt! Or maybe I should add it as my email signature on some of these mailing lists. That would screw with the heads of the people who think I'm being militant.

Re: hmmmm.

[chubbycore.livejournal.com]

mine has peter griffin, but i'd love to just get one that had a plain "no fat chicks". i plan to t-shirt surgery it and make it into a sexy tank top to really fuck with heads.

Also, I would like a shirt that reads "save a whale, harpoon a fat chick." i can't decide if that's the height of too muchery or not.

Re: hmmmm.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

save a whale, harpoon a fat chick... In my mind, it just sounds naughty/pervy. I think it's just shy of the height of too muchery.

Re: hmmmm.

[chubbycore.livejournal.com]

and that's where i come in. I'm always aiming to be perched right on the very edge of the height of too muchery. Will she fall off??? Who can tell!!

Re: hmmmm.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

Of course, if you had a picture of a whale in a stripperly outfit with a dildo instead of a harpoon, THAT would be too much.

apparently where I come in is in coming up with graphic images of poor-taste-having t-shirts. But hey, I grew up in a beach town, home of things like those "big johnson" t-shirts, sold next to US flag towels and salt water taffy.

[cutegaychick.livejournal.com]

Option E: "I like naked bimbos. If only there was a logo that declared my affection for air-brushed beauty. Oh wait, ..."
Option F: "um ... it's a cool logo. What does that have to do with what *I* look like?"

Is it possible that you're reading too much into it? I mean, the fact is, they make these t-shirts in pre-teen girl sizes, women's sizes, plus women's sizes and men's sizes, not to mention "truckers hats." Truckers don't often get asked to pose for Playboy either but that doesn't seem to stop them from wearing the logo.

I mean, if you want to argue that as feminist women, we shouldn't be wearing the logo at all, I'm down with that. But I'm having a hard time with the theory that as fat chicks, we shouldn't wear the logo because somehow we're different than skinny chicks who wear it. I don't see how the statement is any different splashed across my tits than it is on Kate Moss.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

I was trying to encapsulate all those possibilities in the last option. As in, "uh, it's a logo, and I'm a chick... so?".

[cutegaychick.livejournal.com]

Okay - I think it was the fat grrrl that was throwing me off -- I read it as though that was somehow different than a skinny chick.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm trying to be snarky and pissy, and you are seriously cramping my style with your whole "I don't understand your vague words" thing. ;)

[cutegaychick.livejournal.com]

Ah sorry. Didn't mean to think too hard. Carry on.

[orkid.livejournal.com]

isn't it more about what the wearer wants others to think about her? judging by my 15-year-old sister, it's mostly teenagers who shop at Hot Topic and Torrid. aren't these kids just looking to register a little shock value (cushioned by Playboy's brand recognition) along the lines of "she knows about playboy" or "she likes sex" or even just "she thinks she's sexy"? in my experience, most teenagers - even outsider types - are not sophisticated enough to go much beyond that. in other words, i doubt many of those who buy this shirt are actually thinking about the politics of displying naked, skinny, airbrushed, silicone-implanted models at all. i'm glad you do, though!

[keryx.livejournal.com]

Torrid, intriguingly, seems to have an older audience than Hot Topic, probably because finding fun clothes is such an asspain for fat women of any age.

But yeah, interesting point.

[catchstars.livejournal.com]

I think what Torrid is trying to say is: "Look, we're hip, we're fresh. Even fat grrrls can dress like a teen pop sensation!" Sadly, I think you're right about young women thinking the third item on your list.

If I wore it, I'd be doing it with a sense of irony. I'm built like a rugby player, not a model.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

That'd be an interesting take on the shirt, particularly the pastel pink variety, on a strong, buff woman.

[firecat]

Hm.

I might think she is saying "I am very young, and nothing before Nirvana exists for me. I can't possibly keep track of the fact that playboy models have been getting skinnier and skinnier by the decade."

Or I might think she is saying "I'm trying to be hip-hop." Isn't the playboy bunny now a hip-hop icon?

[keryx.livejournal.com]

I think it's a hip hop icon only if bling is involved. But I could be wrong; I'm not all that in tune with the culture.

I'd like to think that the very young (given the teenagers I've known) are actually aware of the many possible readings of the icon, and embracing that fuzziness - but yeah, you may be right.

[firecat]

I have no doubt teenagers are far more aware than I give them credit for. I knew I was getting old when I saw teenagers wearing enormous pants down to their asscrack and thought "OMG that's awful!" Also when I started thinking "Please, the 70s looked stupid enough the first time around."

I invented grunge in the 70s, dammit, by wearing auto company factory shirts that I bought at the thrift store, to the horror of my preppy parents. I want credit!

you are herewith granted credit...

[keryx.livejournal.com]

for inventing one of the US's uglier, least practical in southern summers, clothing trends way ahead of your time.

Without you I might not have had the pleasure of watching frat boys sweat in their flannel shirts and longjohns in the August heat.