keryx: (happydance)
[personal profile] keryx
So, [livejournal.com profile] fancymcsnazsnaz posted about the upcoming 'let's talk about sex' big fat carnival (of blogs).

I have a lot to say. It's something I've been thinking about.

I was a curvy, belly-having teenager, but despite being 100% sure I was Fat (and yeah, I mean Fat here like it's a bad word - we're gonna take that as an assumption for the rest of the story, okay?), I wasn't actually fat. And pretty geeky, or maybe not geeky so much as just flat-out weird. Boys didn't like me. So when people did like me, I felt sortof obligated. I think the idea of being Fat caused me to think in this really stereotypical way, that anyone who wanted me was doing me this huge favor. And I don't know how much every teenaged girl thinks that; it seems pretty common (as does thinking you're Fat whether you're fat or not).

Relatively speaking (i.e. relative to my parents' youthful experience), I've got myself some class privilege. But I was still labeled a slut and a dyke (yay, slutty dykes!), mostly - as far as I can tell - for being weird, because I think those are words kids usually use to ostracize people along class lines. Anyway, I was plucky, so I thought, fuck them, I was both slutty (in the sense of actually taking some charge of my sexuality and not assuming everyone was pitying me) and kinda dykey (or well, at least out-ly bi) by the time I was in college. And I was also waaaaay thinner. I got hit on a lot, and cleverly rejected people almost as often. So it was this weird juxtaposition - I was thinner because I was doing stupid, stupid shit wrt eating, but I was also getting decent play in a way that felt empowering. And then I eventually fell in love, which also meant I had a scheduling mechanism for eating, and I got fatter while simultaneously feeling kindof out-of-the-water about this whole sex+love thing, which was a mindblowingly new concept.

I spent a pretty long time thinking fat equalled Fat, and while I was never like a sex-with-lights-out (well, except for special occasions) kinda girl, I do think the comingling of getting fat and being in a relationship made me sorta perpetually awkward. I think, actually, that dieting did that more than anything else - it creates this duality between mind and body, with the mind conquering the enemy Fat body. How can you really be at home with the body as a source of pleasure when it's a locus of failure? [I can couple that with my theatre work at the time, come to think of it, because I was never, ever happy with that, either.]

In the last 5 years or so, I went back to physical work in a way that reminds me of my adolescent "Okay, kids, you think I'm a slutty lesbian! I'll show you slutty lesbian!" attitude. I take up X amount of space on stage. I have hips that wiggle. I'll show you Fat.

It's a little bit angry, but I think that's justifiable. There are a lot of people - people I know, too - who "just aren't attracted to" anyone my size [Attraction, of course, is purely biological. No cultural bias at all. Snerk.]. I'd prefer that their fat phobia be their problem, but when it defines how they think of me (i.e. not ever possibly sexy) they make it sorta my problem, too. The fat phobic people will, literally, have to fuck themselves.

Anyhow, The Ex took this all quite in stride - he was formerly a fat dude, and shrank a whole lot, but as far as I know never stopped being attracted to me. I was able to expand my idea of what was attractive from soft to harder and scrawnier, too, but despite the fact that it was I who seemed to have more trouble adjusting to his shrinking, when we split up, I remember thinking "It's because I'm just too fat!" - which is utterly, utterly ridiculous. But it's such a cultural story, isn't it? This stereotype that it had to be about attraction, that attraction is all about size.

I've shrunk (as you all know, gentle readers, since I just won't shut up about that), but I'm still fat. And yet pretty much anyone I've expressed a sexual interest in since I've been single has reciprocated. So obviously attraction is not all about size, or at least, isn't about size in a way that labels fat universally bad.

I'll draw some conclusions from this in a bit, but I had to write a bunch of that out in order to organize it in my own head.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arovd.livejournal.com
1) because I think those are words kids usually use to ostracize people along class lines.
Oddly enough, everyone thought I was a stoner, even though i conspicuosly did not hang out with the stoner crowd. ('cause stoner really is a bit of a social thing, esp. in high schhol/college. I think it was just their way of fitting my rather ho-humly-eccentric behavior into some sort of box they could understand.

2) How can you really be at home with the body as a source of pleasure when it's a locus of failure?
Bingo! Give that lady a prize.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 12:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
I think for younger folk, the desire to put someone in a defining box is so great that they'll easily settle for a less-than-perfect-fitting box. That is - "slut" for "of another social class" or "stoner" for "weird". Freaky, though.

Do I get a gold star? I'm collecting them. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Yay! My tiny life is complete!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 07:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
Grr. Log out when you steal my computer!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 07:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
That was me, not her.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-28 08:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Just glad you didn't hijack my journal and post something all feminazi-ish.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-28 10:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
I could have, but I figured since you hadn't taken advantage of my habit of staying logged in all the time, that I could return the favor.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 12:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
It's not all about size. I have yet to figure out what it *is* all about, but it's clearly not size. I had no problem picking up girls 40 pounds heavier and no problem picking up girls 20 pounds lighter. The only time I have problems picking up girls is when I'm stuck in an "I'm too Fat/geeky/stupid/ugly/awkward/boring" mental place.
Also, I periodically look around at the people I've been dating over the last few years. I'm not entirely sure what any of them have in common, but it sure as hell isn't body type.

clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
That should read: I had no problem picking up girls when I was 40 pounds heavier (than now) and no problem picking up girls when I was 20 pounds lighter (than now).

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
So, you can't lift more than your body weight in girls, huh? ;)

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Well see now that's a challenge and I'm going to have to try.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
Thought you might see it that way.
I bet I weigh more than you.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Okay, but if you're going to focus on numbers, I'm going to subject you to a running commentary on my weekly trip to the scale as I diet.

Yesterday I weighed 193. That was down from last week's of 200 but I give a margin of error of +/- 2 pounds, due to differences in clothing, time of day and hormonal cycles.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
I was just trying to simplify things... if I weigh more than you, just lifting me is more than your bodyweight in girls.

Thpblt.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Nope! Too late! Now you've done it. Each week, I'm going to discuss my weight loss attempts and my numbers with you. Until you scream. Then, I will try to pick you up.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
Yeah. That's totally going to work. Because I find nothing hotter than someone making me physically ill once a week.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 01:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Okay so maybe I'll just pick you up. Or hold you down.

Re: clarification

Date: 2006-04-27 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chubbyninja.livejournal.com
it sounds to me like a pretty good exercise incentive.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 12:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
You know, I'm trying to think back (gah, it's so annoying how my own perspective & politics alter my memories) to the times when I felt like people in general were or weren't responding to me... and I actually don't know where my head was wrt the Fat/geeky/etc thing.

I am absolutely positive that strangers commented on my appearance more & in more intrusive ways when I was at my thinnest, and also fairly sure I was crazy then, but I really don't remember if I was confident or beating myself up. Hrm.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cutegaychick.livejournal.com
Truly, I think when we focus on our size/weight, we're being insane. If we're hot, other people think we're hot no matter what we weigh.
I mean, my first instinct was to be all anti-guy about it and say that men think we're hot when we're thinner and women don't seem to care what we weigh. But in really thinking about it, that's not true at all.
I don't think men (cause I feel like lumping all 3 billion of them into a one-sentence stereotype today) like thin women. I think women *think* men like thin women. I think men like women who are happy and confident and comfortable with themselves.
And I think women feel the same way about other women, except that we might have more tolerance and sympathy for other women who aren't happy and confident and comfortable with themselves.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 01:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
My favorite comments ever on the Fatness went like this...
Guy who was flirting with me 2 minutes ago: I could never be attracted to a fat woman.
Me: *raised eyebrow*
GWWFWM2MA: What?
Me: Uh, I'm a fat woman.
GWWFWM2MA: No, you're not. Fat people are lazy & wear bad clothes.

I think both men and women believe they don't like fat people, or at least don't like Fat people, but since there are in fact, no actual Fat people in the world, it doesn't apply in normal daily interaction.

Straight women are pretty awful to straight men about weight, too. I think they (as a group, obviously many straight women disagree) may have the most energy invested in the idea that body size has value.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chubbyninja.livejournal.com
Fat people are lazy & wear bad clothes.

check and check... yep, im a fat people.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
And so is teeny eeny Wes! We should tell her.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chubbyninja.livejournal.com
wes isnt lazy! and i dont actually pay attention to what she wears, so i cant comment on that.
but definitely not lazy.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
She totally claims to be lazy. And she basically wears your outfits, but smaller and with more hats.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chubbyninja.livejournal.com
oooh... sounds like i need some hats.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
Perfect! You can be fat people in hats together!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chubbyninja.livejournal.com
dont be jealous... and btw, we dont want to be an activist for us anymore... it turns out you just arent fat enough.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
I'll fight for your right to party whether you want me to or not! Grrr!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] volondoinyaface.livejournal.com
That is so beautiful, it almost made me piss myself...

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chubbyninja.livejournal.com
ok, geeky and awkward i get... fat, stupid, and ugly are all just silly... but BORING?
boring may very well be your antithesis.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 01:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fooltheworld.livejournal.com
I am newly fat. Sounds weird, I know. But what I mean is, I'm dealing with issues I haven't had to before. And sex is one of them. Yeah, I've been married for 12 years and my husband has never said a mean word about my weight. But it has affected me. And I hate that. And what sucks is I can see the sexy in other people. I see it in you and another of my gorgeous LJ friends. (And I can see it in [livejournal.com profile] arovd's icon!) But I feel decidedly unsexy. I'll totally admit to trying to make the fat go away. But I've also tried just being at peace with it too. It's just a constant struggle for me on so many levels. And I know you probably would anyway, but please point out to me if I have been horribly offensive in this comment in some way. LOL

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keryx.livejournal.com
This is totally the subject of my next post on the same topic - how the idea of Fat and Unsexy and all that stuff mixes up and makes people unhappy.

It's not easy. I know. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-27 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] volondoinyaface.livejournal.com
I have a hard time thinking about fat and fucking together, and keeping it small and post-a-ble. I'll probably have to do it over in my journal, when I've had more sleep, at a later date.

September 2020

S M T W T F S
  12345
678 9101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
27282930   

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags