new fat controversy

[keryx]

Have y'all heard about the latest exciting fat controversy?

The fabulous Hanne Blank is coming out as a dieter. And fattivists are thinking a lot about that [if by "thinking about" you mean "actively and articulately pissed"].

I think I've drunk the wrong Kool-Aid or something, because I believe her new blog could be a pretty good thing. Not! Because I think Blank is unhealthy and morally bankrupt and her life will just be so so so much better if she diets. Or, for that matter, that I think weightloss diets work. Especially for women. But there's this enormous pressure on people to shrink. Most people feel it. And someone significant in the fat movement admitting to this, caving to it, is really thought-provoking.

I used to have a huge problem with weightloss / diet talk. I still think it's a dumb idea, though it's a really common dumb idea. I just. I get it more. I get it more having shrunk a little and mostly grown back (or sorta grown back - I dunno, my body is really different) and feeling how weird my body is to me. Having a Body versus a Me, for instance. That's freaky. Yet. I suspect it's how lots of people feel. I know a big response to it is weightloss dieting, or as Pinky would have it a Whole New Way of Eating, and there are assloads of people dieting.

When I found the fat movement, all the Yay, Fatness! fatties were this beacon of light for me. Here were all these people who apparently just unconditionally loved themselves. I wanted that! I wanted my fatness to be great, or even just a simple, no-value-attached fact. And now, most of the time, it's just a fact. I'm fairly convinced my life wouldn't be any better if I were thinner. I'm positive it wouldn't be any better if I were dieting. I suppose if I'd never found the fat movement, I'd be less flummoxed when I, say, found myself attracted to people who later decided to diet or called their smaller-than-me selves fat - but I could be a lot sadder, too. That, by the way, is another story, kids. Remind me to tell you that one.

You know how I got there? I went on a Whole New Way of Eating. I was eating crap and not moving, and I started eating less crappily and became a dance teacher. I lost a little weight, regained a bunch of it (this is, by the way, over a period of 3-4 years now), and I came out of it with a less fucked up relationship with myself, and as it turns out, a slightly less self-righteous relationship with everyone else.

I said most of the time about that body image thing. You caught that, right? At my best, I wonder once a day whether I could or should try to make myself thinner. At my worst, I feel like a failed Official Fat Person for not feeling the love 100%. So few of those fat icons cop to anything less than 100%. Of course, some of those fat icons probably don't even consider me big enough to be an Official Fat Person. My angst feels invalidated, dammit! It really did feel like the movement didn't have anything to offer on that count - which would be okay if the movement were purely political (it's not a political action group's responsibility to give me tools to feel better about being progressive, for instance). This movement is not purely political, though. It's social and cultural and sciencey, too.

Yeah. So. No, choosing a Whole New Way of Eating if you're an icon of the fat movement is NOT a "personal choice". It contradicts a lot of the premises of the movement. It is also, however, a choice that brings at least one fat icon a little closer to what most people feel about their size. Dieting is part of the journey for a lot of people, and if the great mass of fattivists are all "but Diets Don't Work!" that makes it a lot harder for individual fatties to work through their own contradictions. Nowhere does it say that a slightly less fat person can't be a fattivist, that I suddenly must become anti-fat if I shrink some. I also don't need to become a self-righteous pro-diet shit, which frankly many fatties have done with their "OMG my whole life is soooooo much better" rhetoric about losing weight. Tell you what, dieting fatties: I won't demand that you explain yourself constantly, and you can work on a schtick that sounds a little less like an add for weight loss surgery. Sound like a deal? [It's the pro-diet asshat comments on Blank's blog that really get me. Can you tell? I think anyone who has to proclaim loudly that they have no regrets must have some. Something about protesting too much...]

Further. What if Hanne Blank is right? What if she will feel better still fat but slightly less so? What if she'll sustain fewer injuries? What if she'll be more mobile, have more time or energy? Hell, what if she'll even be a better fattivist slightly less fat? Should we kick her out of the movement anyhow?

I am not suggesting that the fat movement alter its political stance about weightloss dieting, medical weightloss, or the aggregated science around weight and health. The political aspect of the movement is right about those things, and right to say that one's life should not & must not be more or less affected by discrimination based on size (a lot of where the "my whole life is better" rhetoric seems to come from). But. The personal aspect of the movement can afford to allow that individual results vary and that in the real world today being fat can kinda suck - and that some people want to & are able to be less fat.

People get a lot of different results when they undertake a change in their lifestyle with a weightloss motivation. Some get smaller, some don't. Some get happier (often without shrinking a bit), some don't. I think it's entirely possible to set out on a weightloss plan and come back a healthier, more fat-loving person - regardless of size.

Comments

[lifewithrockets.livejournal.com]

Nice post. I'm always talking about diet and excercize. Some people I'm sure, think that I may be obsessive or overly concerned about my weight. Thats because I am. I don't feel healthy, I don't feel energetic and I'm in general less positive. However, I've been taking steps over the last few months to get to a healthy lifestyle... not easy. A healthy lifestyle consists of excercize and lets face it, you need a certain amount of free time to do so. Gym hours aren't flexible. However, not my point, my point being that, if someone wants to lose weight healthily then why shit on them? The thought that someone would shove somebody else out of the movement because they lost some weight is silly and not at all "anti-fat".

I believed the goal of fattivists was to change societies preception of people who are not the socially accepted norm (that norm not exactly being healthy anyway) and see that a little extra weight doesn't discount you as a person, which is how one can be made to feel.

Anyway, I've gotten into a jumbled rant. Nice post anyway.. I forget where I was going with this!

[keryx.livejournal.com]

The movement's goals are broader than changing perceptions, too - it's also changing the scientific bias that there's a single "normal" weight and that being fat is "extra", and it's pushing for legal protection when people are discriminated against. Weightloss dieting is ineffective and unhealthy for many people, and losing weight doesn't eliminate many "weight related" medical problems.

So, the argument that setting out to lose weight makes you a bad fattivist isn't groundless. If a tenet of the movement is that weightloss dieting/medical intervention is generally a response to bad science, discrimination & prejudice, then weightloss dieting is a bad idea politically if you're a fattivist.

[lifewithrockets.livejournal.com]

But there are healthy ways to eat. For instance I had a horrible diet. I know that, i ate shit all the time in large quantities that isn't good for anyone. Hence, i put on a lot of weight. So I took a new approach to eating and ate really carefully. and some could say I'm even dieting because I have chose to stay away from certain foods that i over indulge in or are particularly bad for you, like a lot of friend foods, and in my case, greasy Bronson Pizza (local joint). I don't see how theres anything wrong with that. Do you mean that the person you are talking about is on a dangerous diet?

At any rate, I'm convinced no one can be fit without proper diet and excercize. But I know the difference between being fit and bigger to being skinny and unfit...

are you saying that you don't believe in healthy weight schemes. correct me if I'm misunderstanding. thanks.

[lifewithrockets.livejournal.com]

i meant healthy weight sstandards. bah. I can't articulate as usual. my apologies.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. I had this vision of people scheming and conniving about healthy weight! *grin*

So, no. I don't think it's possible to have a single weight standard (i.e. BMI) that effectively tells you someone is or isn't healthy. Significant weight gain or loss is definitely a sign that something is up for anyone, but you or I might be healthy within a wide range of weights.

[lifewithrockets.livejournal.com]

Me and language don't get along very well sorry. I couldn't even read until I was in Jr. High. So I often mix-up words. Also everything I write is littered with mis-spelled words. Sorry.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

No big deal. It was a funny thought! :)

[keryx.livejournal.com]

What is a "healthy weight scheme"?

I like to be clear about the language we use, too. For instance "healthy" has little inherently to do with size or weight (though undoubtedly a lot of people experience weight changes in one way or another when they're sick or simply eating crap & being inactive); "fit" is specific to your activity - you can be "fit" for sitting on the sofa, which isn't healthy. I think taking steps to be healthy & fit for whatever activities you want to do is a GREAT idea. Tying those two things to weight is, in my opinion (and that of most fattivists), a mistake.

Weightloss dieting, particularly with repeated gain & loss over months or years, has been shown to be associated with increased cardiovascular risk. That's what I mean when I say dieting is often unhealthy.

[shryve.livejournal.com]

Hi

Would you call what I do dieting?

If I pay no mind to the amount of food that I eat my weight is steady, I stay in the high 200 to low 300 weight area. I can tell by the way my pants fit :)

If my weight rises well into the 300 range then I know that I am doing something different and correct it. I feel that doing anything less would be boarding the "Fat Gaining" Community.

William

[sarahmichigan.livejournal.com]

I think it's been a good, if somewhat exhausting, conversation.

It's been good for me to sort of crystalize what I think on the whole subject, which is "weight loss diets are stupid and fruitless for most people" but that doesn't make dieters bad or stupid people. Most people have to try it a couple/dozen times before they're ready to decide on a more HAES approach to eating and exercise and more body positivity, and some people will never get there.

I think it's a sad waste of energy and I worry about the health effects of yo-yoing, but ultimately, it's not really my business what anyone else does, and I try not to give my opinion on the stupidity of dieting unless asked (well, I do on my journal, but I'm saying it to a general "You out there" as opposed to saying it directly to a specific friend or acquaintance).

[keryx.livejournal.com]

I am much better at concealing my opinion that weightloss dieting is stupid and possibly dangerous when it involves people I actually know. I have a hard time not taking it as a personal judgement.

In the abstract, at least, I can think "oh, they'll get there eventually". People do get there eventually if exposed to the right information.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

I mistyped that - the first part should be when it DOESN'T INVOLVE people I actually know.

[rackletang.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've been following this controversy from the sidelines, and it's got my brain percolating, I gotta tell ya. :)

[attrice.livejournal.com]

My thoughts have been all over the map on this one. On one hand, it is her body and of course she may diet if she wishes. OTOH, all the "omg, you're trying to control the movement" "ack! stop waving your pitchforks" nonsense that I've seen is, imo, either completely disingenuous or very very very naive.

I mean, over at one blog Hanne's partner even said something along the lines that she started the blog partly to encourage conversation. So if that's the case, complaining after the fact that some of the conversation going on isn't 100% supportive of your actions...er whatever. And anyone who thinks a public blog is off limits for scrutiny hasn't been on the internet for more than a day.

But! I do think there needs to be a bit more honesty and bit more willingness to acknowledge the variety of fat experience. One thing that another blogger (Natalie, I think is her name) said that really struck a chord with me is that a lot of people can engage in all sorts of dieting behaviors, but so long as they tell everyone that weight loss insn't one of their goals, then it's all fine. And really, I consider myself pretty damn fat positive and I know that sometimes when I start a new fitness project (running, at the moment!) there's always something in me that thinks maybe this *will* be the magic weight loss thing, you know. And that we need more acknowledgement of, like you said, that it's not easy to be fat. And maybe the movement needs to really start focusing on how to make it easier. I mean, all the HAES, self-esteem stuff is completely necessary, but we're hardly competing w/ the mainstream here.

Also, in another conversation that I've been following, someone made a point that sometimes those on the bigger end of the fat spectrum get ignored or their concerns get pushed aside so that the FA message is less muddled which I can definitely see. For a long while I was constantly bothered by the fact that many of the people on the internet that I saw as really being the hardcore fattivists were all much smaller than me. And I thought this as a size 26 so I know it can't be easy for people who are larger, especially if they have health issues related to or exacerbated by fat.

And, on a personal note, I've always felt that part of pushing the idea that fat does not act the same way on every body (wrt diabetes, joint and bone health etc etc..) is that we can't ignore when it does. And we can't just say "well too bad permanent weight loss isn't really possible" and leave it at that when people have health troubles that are made worse by their size. I'm not sure what the solution is, but when I hear about someone who had mobility issues or breathing problems or terrible joint pain turning away from the FA movement and getting part of their stomach removed, I just don't have it in me to judge.

[keryx.livejournal.com]

One of my big coming down off my self-righteous soapbox things with fat was this: I am a reasonably young, reasonably healthy person. It's easy for me to produce anecdotes that prove fatness doesn't affect my health or quality of life (except in that it's a good barrier to dating straight men who'd later prove themselves asshats). That is not everyone's experience. I think the key to mobility is to get mobile, not to get less-fat - but I can't prove that to someone much larger, much older, much sicker than me. Not if they're already convinced otherwise.

What I can do is make the world a little easier so whether anyone's dieting succeeds or fails, it ultimately affects nothing but their own body - not their ability to sit in a restaurant, to not be berated by a doctor, to be hired if they're qualified, to find an environment in which they fit. So much of the fattivist movement is talking amongst ourselves, and while that's meaningful, it's nowhere near as impactful as acting (or talking) outside.