grumble grumble grumble
Jul. 19th, 2004 10:05 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
keryxHey, there's a thing on Tomato Nation about the carbohydrate counterrevolution. To paraphrase: get the fuck over it already. To which I say, hell yeah.
So, I think Sars is a regular-sized (smaller than I, I mean) grrrl talking to other regular-sized (most of you, I mean) grrrls. As a fat activist, I found myself cheering her essential message while enumerating the assumptions I think she had wrong. Did you? Or do I read more into this stuff?
I'm curious. As I'm a cheapskate (or rather, someone who already pays for a webspace elsewhere) I don't have a premium membership and can't actually create a poll about this. But answer me some questions if you will? Please? If you do, I promise to stop sulking about how boring I am, I swear...
1. Do you think there's a point at which one's size in and of itself affects one's health?
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
So, I think Sars is a regular-sized (smaller than I, I mean) grrrl talking to other regular-sized (most of you, I mean) grrrls. As a fat activist, I found myself cheering her essential message while enumerating the assumptions I think she had wrong. Did you? Or do I read more into this stuff?
I'm curious. As I'm a cheapskate (or rather, someone who already pays for a webspace elsewhere) I don't have a premium membership and can't actually create a poll about this. But answer me some questions if you will? Please? If you do, I promise to stop sulking about how boring I am, I swear...
1. Do you think there's a point at which one's size in and of itself affects one's health?
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 02:37 pm (UTC)2. See above.
3. I don't know whether there is a crisis or not, but I do know that when I'm out in the world, I have noticed a lot more fat children around. It could just be my perspective, I don't know. I think the "obesity crisis" is part of a larger cultural phenomenon, where people are out of touch with nature and their bodies in general. Obesity is a symptom, not the problem.
4. I don't have any restrictions against carbs, though I am a total carb addict, so I try to resist them when I can.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 02:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:47 pm (UTC)There are some exceptions. Like, it seems like everyone who shops at Wal-Mart is substantial and midwestern. But that shouldn't be a huge surprise - there's a big class/economic aspect to weight and health, probably cause there's such a class factor in food and physical activity.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 02:44 pm (UTC)Yes, I do think there is a point. To me, the point is at which you are unable to move freely, blood pressure is too high, cholesterol problems. In that respect loosing weight is a definite. If your iron is low, eating more iron rich foods would benefit someone who is thin. If you are weak all the time from thinness, eating protein or carbs can benefit.
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
See #1
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin? I don't think their is a crisis per se. I think the media likes to hype obesity and the "growing fat problem". I like to think of it as bullshit. Fat has existed forever. I'm fat and I have wonderful blood pressure, so stop saying i'm unhealthy.
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
For the right reasons. If you are unhappy being fat/thin, but it's because of an unattainable beauty standard, I would advise for that person to work on their inner beauty first before attempting weight loss or gain. If one looses or gains weight without working on their inner structure, they will still feel the same exact way, but they have only changed their appearance. Like I mentioned above, if your weight starts to limit mobility or energy level a change has to be made. Perhaps going to a nutritutionalist (sp?) would work.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
Yes, currently I do. I have struggled with my weight for ages and it is something that has brought me a lot of pain as most people will understand. I've lost tremendous amount of weight and have still been unhappy. It is only through fat positive people and feminism that I have found strength to be who I am. Yes, I currently restrict carbs because I would like to be an attainable size. I have found power in not caring as much how large my size is, but knowing that I look good in whatever I wear. This for me is a tremendous step, even if it seems small to other people. I can't be thin and it's taken me a long time to say, hey that's okay. Do I still have hang ups? Of course. Do I still feel a certain amount of ugliness, yes of course, but I'm working on it.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:51 pm (UTC)On a completely different note... In #1, it sounds like you're equating some things with fat that aren't necessarily related - losing weight won't necessarily do anything good for metabolic fitness.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 08:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 03:18 pm (UTC)I think it can.
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
The point is different for everyone, and I think somethings that determine the point would be things such as how large ones frame is, how active they are, etc. The effects I have seen typically tend towards bad knees and back problems.
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
I think america actually has two crisises. One is that of obesity, but also we have a crisis of crazy dieting and poor body image. I think both of them are linked. Instead of ever learning how to eat well and have a healthy active lifestyle we are so concerned with our body image that we are always looking for quick fix eating. It seems to me that the more people do fad diets the more they often tend to become overweight. perhaps if we all just learned to eat well we'd have a nation of people who weren't skinny, but also were at whatever weight their body naturally tended towards. But I dunno. I'm from a family of people with eating disorders so I could be talking out my ass.
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
I think it depends on the person, and why they are too fat/thin. And I would suggest for those who need to gain or lose weight that they talk to a doctor and not to me.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
Not anymore because the diet never really worked for long. Though I may start a gluten free diet after I see a doctor because I may have syliac. (sp?) And if that is the case then wheat gluten causes my immune system to attack the sylia in my intestines. So I geuss that would count as a diet restriction against carbs, but only one specific type.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:00 pm (UTC)Hear hear, and bravo!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:05 pm (UTC)Or am I the evil one? Damn. I guess we'll know when we see who grows the goatee first.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 07:48 pm (UTC)Hmm.
Date: 2004-07-19 04:14 pm (UTC)I can't speak for everybody, but I think that yes, size has made a difference in my own health. I know that somewhere over 200 lbs. has put excess strain on my knees and my ability to keep standing for long periods of time. I did not gain the strength to maintain the weight adequately, which is something I hope to do. I do not really care about the numbers, but how I _feel_. (For example, my gym-goal is to be able to pull myself up in a chin-up style movement. If I'm 100 lbs. or 300 lbs. it won't matter to me.)
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
The only crisis I see is an economic one... for example, how foods we know to be low on the nutrition scale are the ones that you can buy cheaply... and make you feel more "full."
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
Who makes that "too" determination? The individual needs to decide if he or she should make changes... and not let that decision be made by others. As for measures, I think that's fairly idiosyncratic. In my case, I know that I won't change my diet significantly, but I also know that I love the feeling of exercising regularly and that it seems to have a positive effect. That's getting me where I want to be. It doesn't seem to work for my ex-girlfriend... the exercise leaves her feeling miserable, so other measures (like taking sweets out of the house) are more applicable.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
I watch them because when I had gestational diabetes I noted both how many I had daily [they were a majority of my diet] as well as how much they seemed to affect my blood sugar. I have moved to more so-called "complex" carbohydrates to kind of balance this out and perceivably change some of my habits.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:23 pm (UTC)Anyway...
1. Do you think there's a point at which one's size in and of itself affects one's health?
I do, though I tend to think it's much more extreme than a lot of people would admit.
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
I think the point is different for each person. For myself, if I cannot walk up some stairs (there are 14 to my apartment, for instance) without being winded, then I think I am not healthy. Er, that's just one aspect, but it was a quantifiable example. As for the specific health effects, of course those are also different for each person. As a personal example, I tend to think about sodium and caffeine, because I have a long family history of high blood pressure and so far I've managed to avoid it, and would like to continue doing so.
I do think that things such as, oh, the freakin' BMI chart, are way off base. There was a time when I was younger when I was having some womanly issues, and because of them the gyno sent me to a nutritionist. I was on a 1600-calorie a day diet, I ate more fruit and veggies than probably at any point in my life, and I eventually hit my plateau - we all have them, the point at which it will take really extraordinary measures to lose any more weight. My weight and height at that time would have still put me just over the line into "Obese" on the BMI chart. And you know what? At the time, I was healthy and felt great and looked great. SCREW the BMI chart. It's a gross oversimplification.
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
I have a simple explanation for the 'obesity crisis' - simple explanations.
One of the reasons the 'crisis' has exploded is because of the new standards reflected in the aforementioned BMI chart (see above).
Low-carb, no-carb, South Beach, grapefruit, Slim Fast - they are all "Single Solution To Solve Everything" programs. There is no single solution for every person. The dieting industry is a point of insanity, and is too busy looking out for that Single Solution - and it's not just to weightloss, weightloss is supposed to be the key to the rest of your happiness!
Guess what, there's no one solution to that either.
Now, I do Americans have weirdly unhealthy views about food. No one cooks any more. When I was a kid, McDonald's was an occasional treat and the french fries still came in those little paper sleeves, not the giant Cardboard Silos they come in now. I think we're losing the grace and style of dinnertime, the appreciation for well-prepared food to be savored and discussed. We just shove food in our mouths. I think that's a crisis, and it still would be even if they figured out a Magic Pill that made everyone achieve their healthiest weight no matter what they ate.
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
If a person is too fat or too thin, confirmed through thoughtful consultation with a physician who does more than just point at a BMI chart and through a person's own comfort levels and sense of self, then I think the person should make what changes they feel will bring them to a better comfort level, health level, and sense of self. I long for a day when that means a lot more than "I wanna be one of those people in the before and after pictures."
The measures should really be up to the person. As should the decision to take them or not. If they don't work, I dunno. Find a sane doctor without a BMI chart? =)
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
Nope. I wish I could live on carbs alone just to piss other people off.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:06 pm (UTC)And I think you're spot on with this: I have a simple explanation for the 'obesity crisis' - simple explanations.
I hope you're as right about the low carb hype dying out. I am so sick of it (although, I have to say, I find a lot of low carb foods tastier, if no healthier, than their regular carby counterparts).
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:31 pm (UTC)For people with a metabolic tendency to insulin resistance, there is a point at which their weight will start causing more insulin resistance, which increases the tendency to weight gain, and the cycle leads to type 2 diabetes and its concurrent circulatory problems. Different people develop diabetes at different weights; I think the scientists really have no idea what all the factors are that would cause someone to develop it or not at a particular time. Some folks develop type 2 when they aren't really very fat at all; others don't develop it until they weigh more than 300 pounds. The amount of exercise one gets is probably a factor (exercise reduces insulin resistance), as is the kind of diet one eats (but there's no agreement on what ratio of carbs/fats/proteins is best for people with insulin resistance).
Some fat people develop joint problems because of moving around. So do some thin people and many athletes. This isn't due to fat per se but to some combination of how much and what kind of moving around (some movement stresses joints more than others), how resilient your joints are (seems some people have joints that get damaged more easily than others), whether you exercise to strengthen the muscles around your joints (which helps prevent injury to them), and so forth.
Some people develop sleep apnea when they get big. Sleep apnea can exacerbate heart problems and diabetes. The size at which someone might develop sleep apnea is particular to the person, and a lot of thin people have sleep apnea too.
A few things that people think are caused by fat, but aren't: high blood pressure, in people other than those with insulin resistance. High cholesterol and hardened arteries, ditto. Those are primarily genetic and can strike even thin people who exercise. My sweetie's dad, who is thin, ran 10 miles every day for most of his life, and he still needed a quadruple bypass. Cancer: Fatness protects against more kinds of cancer than it promotes, and having extra weight on you is helpful if you choose to get treated with chemotherapy, which causes wasting.
3. No, I don't buy the "crisis of obesity" crap; the average American has gained on the order of 15 pounds in the last 20 years, and that's not a crisis of obesity. And it's possible the gain has been caused by people yo-yo-dieting, but it's more likely it's due to the aging of the population. It's a crisis generated by people who want to make money off of it.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:31 pm (UTC)If you feel that you're too fat, start a habit of moderate exercise. Exercise is shown to improve body image even when it doesn't result in weight loss. And it also improves health, even if there is no weight loss.
Weight loss surgery is popular right now, but it has a death rate on the operating table of 2 percent, although lots of surgeons will quote you a lower number. So it seems like a pretty bad idea for people who are fat but otherwise don't have health problems. I think it's a crime that doctors will talk young healthy people into WLS because "they might have problems down the road." That's like castrating young men because older men tend to have more health problems than older women! There's a high risk of complications (something like 30% of people have to have additional surgery to correct life-threatening complications). Most of the weight loss happens in the first year, because one loses one's appetite due to an effect of the surgery...but this is a temporary effect; the appetite comes back, and then a lot of people regain weight. (With all the health problems associated with rapid weight regain.)
That said, I won't state an opinion on whether someone who is 400 or more pounds, say, with significant mobility problems that can't be helped by exercise, should choose surgery. I know there are points at which one feels that one's life isn't worth living, and if it's really a matter of wanting to die or take the risks, one might decide the risks are worth it. I just think it's terribly sad when people who weigh, say, 220 pounds think they are at that point. And I think they've probably been sold a bill of goods.
5. As a type 2 diabetic, I try to eat meals that are not high on carbs, and that combine carbs with other food groups, because such meals are less likely to spike my blood sugar. I did do a very low carb diet for a few months after first being diagnosed, and it did cause weight loss and help control my blood sugar. But I just couldn't stand the restrictions, so I stopped the diet (and regained the weight plus more).
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 07:51 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:39 pm (UTC)Size in and of itself isn't the issue. There isn't always a direct correlation between mody mass and health. It's much more complicated than that, and it's always a mistake to make either negetive or positive assumptions about a person's health based on how much he or she weighs.
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
See #1
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
I don't honestly know if there is one or not. The media says there is, but since when can you trust them? If there is one, I think it's a very complex issue. I think the underyling problem is one all of us--fat and thin--are facing in this culture, as we become more and more sedentary and have less and less time to prepare food from scratch. If you have disposable income, it's easier to just go to a restaurant where the food is unbalanced nutritionally and the portions are huge, and if you're poor you more or less have to take what you can get. Gone are the days where we got most of our food from local farmers or from our backyards. And the constant pressure to diet doesn't help. Living in a culture where you're expected to spend more than half your free time exercising and then join your friends for drinks and dinner at Chili's is a national health crisis in and of itself, imho, but again, this is true for everyone, not just fat folks.
And that's the heart of the problem right there, isn't it? Since fat people are visible, it's easier to make scapegoats out of them than to actually address the real problem--the image and money-oriented nature of our society. I could go on, but I think I's better put a sock in it. ;)
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
That's a totally individual decision.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
No.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:56 pm (UTC)As others have mentioned, loss of mobility can be a size-related issue. This is quite startlingly rare, however. I think joint problems are a bit more common, but still so rare as not to be of tremendous concern, considered against ordinary health risks.
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
Depends on each person.
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
I think there may in fact be a serious problem with inactivity in America. That's far from the same thing as a crisis of obesity. I point an accusing finger at Car Culture, media hysteria about crime keeping people from walking in their own neighborhoods, and Americans' ridiculous inability to adapt to normal variations in outdoor temperature.
The "crisis of obesity" is purest bullshit manufactured by diet companies and corrupt doctors and researchers.
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
Frankly, no, they shouldn't, because as yet no one has come up with a safe and effective method for accomplishing and maintaining desired weight change. Seriously, folks, if results like these were run past the FDA blind, the "drug" wouldn't be approved. Bleagh.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
I do not. As a vegetarian, it'd be punishingly difficult to maintain. Besides, I like carb-rich foods.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 07:52 pm (UTC)That's actually one reason I have always wanted to live in a big city. It would be easier to walk to things, because everything is closer together AND they provide better alternatives to driving.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:23 pm (UTC)1. Do you think there's a point at which one's size in and of itself affects one's health?
Yes.
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
If a woman drops below about 5% body fat, or low enough for amenorrhea, then risk of osteoporosis etc. is much higher. There are other dangers to very low body weight for both sexes, basically brain and heart damage I think. In terms of overweight, I am not as sure, but I would think that being extremely huge, as in immobile, would place a strain on the joints and organs.
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
No, I think there is a crisis of sedentary lifestyles, cheap foods laden with high-fructose corn syrup, and unrealistic expectations.
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
I think people who are too thin should try to gain weight, ideally with the help of a nutritionist. If people are so obese that it is causing health problems, then likewise. Other than that, I think most people just need to get exercise and eat healthier foods.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
I try not to eat them so fast I'm not enjoying every bite.
p.s.
Date: 2004-07-19 05:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:11 pm (UTC)There can be, yes
2. If so, what do you think that point(s) is(are)? And what are the health effects?
Like previous posters have said, it varies from person to person. If you are large enough that your mobility is affected, this will affect your health because it will be difficult for you to be active enough to maintain good cardiovascular health. Likewise, there is a point for everyone that is "too thin" which can cause a loss of menstrual cycles or osteoporosis (of course this is usually due to actions that led you to be too thin). However, size is less of a cause of health problems than an effect. Health problems associated with being "too fat" or "too thin" usually come from either actions or diseases that led a person to be "too fat" or "too thin" (i.e. anorexia nervosa, thyroid problems, stupid low carb diets and lack of exercise). If I eat nothing but 50 Twinkies a day and never do anything, then yeah, I'm going to get very fat and probably be unhealthy. But a lot of my health problems are going to be because all I eat is Twinkies (which have no nutritional value at all) and because I don't exercise, not necessarily because I'm not a size 6.
3. Do you think there is a crisis of obesity in America? If so, what exactly is it and what do you think is its origin?
No. I think that to look at someone who is "obese" and assume that it means they are unhealthy is ridiculous. Especially when you look at a BMI. My BMI is 31, I am "obese." But every few months (when I give blood), I have my blood pressure and pulse checked, and they are fine. I try and exercise daily, and eat healthily. I am generally healthy. The origin of the idea of "a crisis" stems from many things--our assumptions about why people are fat, unrealistic ideas about what ideal size is, and the fact that companies can make money if people think that they are fat.
I do, however, think that many Americans, regardless of size, are unhealthy, because we are more focused on being thin than on establishing healthy habits. We're so focused on what is fast and easy and looks good that we fail to realize that getting thin on the Atkins Diet doesn't necessarily make you any healthier.
4. Should people who are too fat/too thin try to lose/gain weight? If so, what measures should they take? And what if those measures don't work?
I think that making an effort to be healthier is more productive. For instance, I know that I could be in better shape and exercise a bit more and eat some more veggies, and that if I do these things, I will probably lose some weight, but more important, my overall health and fitness will improve. I think that weight loss/gain should be undertaken as a secondary goal of improving habits, and that it's something to be discussed with a doctor.
5. Do you personally have any diet restrictions against carbs? And why?
Eh, not really. I'm trying to eat less sugar, because I feel I eat too much, and sugar is a carb so, I guess I sort of do. And I prefer whole grain food to not, but that's because I think it has a better taste and texture.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 06:53 pm (UTC)To your point on #3, I wonder sometimes if "healthy" isn't just a way to market thin to men, and to more women who hadn't completely bought thin yet.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 09:04 pm (UTC)Everyone can make small improvements to make themselves a little healthier. As a society we eat too much sugary, processed fast food in huge portions, don't walk enough (because we drive everywhere), go on stupid fad diets, and many people don't have access to proper primary health care. All of these things make us unhealthy, and I think you're just as likely to be unhealthy if you're thin as if you're fat. But the answer to general health improvement in the country is not stupid fads or "miracle" products. That's more what I meant by healthy, instead of the way companies use it in marketing. Being healthier is just small steps, like walking at night or skipping the fast food once a week or something--small choices that don't require you to reshape your life and shell out big bucks. (And of course it would help if everyone had access to proper healthcare, but that's a whole other story). Unfortunately, too many people see health as tied up in what advertisers tell us it is.
And I'm glad you like the icon! :)
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Date: 2012-09-04 04:19 am (UTC)